Wednesday, October 13, 2010

Bankers Life and Casualty Insurance take advandage of the elderly

I was invited for an interview (which was really a meeting) for bankers life and casualty insurance. The first meeting lasted 10 minutes and then they invite you for a second interview (which was also just a meeting although this one lasted an hour).

They were focused on selling medicare products and I said to myself A) How can you make money on medicare since most of it paid through taxes and B) If someone was well to do I would think it would be in the clients best interest to have some private insurance as some doctors don't take clients in Medicare and even those that do the care is less simply because reimbursement from Medicare to Doctors are very low.

If I want to sell something I want it to be something that is in the clients best interest.

So I decided to do a google search and behold the whole thing is a scam and they use medicare to get into an elderly person's home and then sell them something else which is wrong. In addition this other thing they sell isn't even in the clients best interest and is just to pay themselves a big fat commission. This company preys on the elderly and those looking for work which is terrible.

They of course want you to pay for your training and other items. They start out by lying and claiming they will pay at the beginning which doesn't seem to be true.
But the whole Medicare just didn't seem right to me and the whole thing is a scam. A 100 year old company is engaging in terrible practices.

Anyway here is a you tube video on an expose of Bankers Life and Casualty Insurance.

I canceled this so called "3rd interview" and all I lost was a little time and gas thank God. The saying remains "If something sounds too good to be true it usually is."


Anonymous said...

I would recommend staying away from the insurance/selling type work. I have been to a few of these type interviews including Banker's, Citibank, and a few small ones (same basic idea, although different companies have different hooks to get clients initially interested). Regardless of the scam issue to clients, there's an extremely high turnover of new agents--I've heard it's around 90% in one year. McDonald's has a better employee retention rate!

Of course these companies do expect you to pay for your over priced work expenses before making any comission. They are preying on desparate folks.

Analytical Adam said...

To be fair I don't mind sales if it is a product that people want. It is a good thing you get paid more if you sell more.

Anonymous wrote>Regardless of the scam issue to clients

It is a major issue and the reason is if they scam the clients you have to ask yourself well then why would they not scam you as well since in both cases it is to make money for oneself by being dishonest and lying to another human being.

This company from going on the internet last night I have never seeing anything so unethical in my life in every way. Everything they do is crooked. They should be shut down.

Thankfully just using my common sense and wanting to do the right thing led me to question this very early on before getting involved with them in any way.

Anonymous said...

The insurance and financial services industries are full of scams, preying on old people, widows, and anyone that's recently come into a lot of $$$ and doesn't currently have common sense (Not that it makes someone stupid--it's understandable a grieving widow is weak and a target).

Didn't mean to imply the to ignore the scam issue, of course crummy companies are lousy to everyone eventually--even the star performers will fall out of favor sooner or later.

Anonymous said...

another one emailed to me....good luck

Deloitte Tax is HIRING If you know of anyone who would like a tax career at Deloitte, I would be happy to submit any resumes into the system.

Submit direct to sendresume4ajob@ provide a MS WORD resume with salary preferences. Or perhaps you know of a friend with similar background, who t have required... qualifications and interest, please email their resume for further consideration.

Analytical Adam said...

Thank you. I will send my resume. I have done tax work since 2003 during every tax season.

I still want to do more in the accounting side but I may be stuck in the tax side.

My feeling on taxes is that we should have an easier system and a flat tax. The way the tax system is now certain groups get special favors from the government which is not good. Also the system is so complicating that it is bad for business and being competitive in the world stage.

It isn't good if companies spend too much time on dealing with the IRS and tax issues as most of their time should be on developing good products and/or services. On the accounting side it is more helping them be profitable then it is on the tax side which it may be good for you if tax law is complicated but it isn't good for the economy as a whole. Just my feelings on it although sometimes we have to do a job that isn't our ideal job.

Just thought I would share what is going through my head. Thanks again for the heads up. That is very kind of you.

Anonymous said...

OK, what are the key words you are looking for? So working for the IRS is out ;-)

Maybe you can do a post on flat tax. I'm having Steven Forbes flashbacks.

Analytical Adam said...

By the way I emailed the individual from Deloitte. Basically he gave me another site with job listings. Sadly I think all the jobs are really above what my experience is.

Analytical Adam said...

Anonymous wrote:>So working for the IRS is out ;-)

Uh, well I think I have to look into any possible job that my skill set would qualify me for the job and certainly being a CPA with some tax experience would qualify me.

Having said that at least from a book I read about the IRS 10 years ago don't know if it still that way now as they did make some changes but 10 years ago many who worked at the IRS find the atmosphere to be very bad.

The way you advanced in the IRS from what I read is how much money you make for the IRS. Some people to do this would use tactics to taxpayers that weren't right. There is little checks and balances to the IRS.

If I worked for the IRS I would want to stop those who are taking false credits or false non-profit status and falsifying returns. At the same time I wouldn't take advantage of someone who clearly is doing things in good faith just because I can and that person is an easy target. That being the case I don't know how far I would get.

Also I guess if you work for the IRS if you are let go the only kind of job you could get would be another tax position although if you aren't buddy-buddy with many IRS people who knows. Some of this I know from my last job. We shared an office with a larger accounting firm and one guy worked for the IRS and had buddies there which his contacts there were good for his firm.

The other bad thing about taxes is that of course every country and every state for that matter has it's own laws and therefore the skills are not very transferable. Accounting is more universal then taxation is in many respects.

Analytical Adam said...

Anonymous wrote:>Maybe you can do a post on flat tax. I'm having Steven Forbes flashbacks.<

I have one of his books from my book club.

I was reading one day at Barnes and Nobles on the fair tax which would tax consumption rather then earnings which I think is a better system for a number reasons.

When things are going well you could buy things and pay more taxe and if things are tight you will buy less and pay less.

The other issue is our tax system only knows people who have a Social Security number and those who are undocumented don't have to pay. A consumption tax would mean everyone would pay. Our tax system discriminates against those who are citizens sad to say and gives the advantage to someone undocumented. A little food for thought here.

At the end of the day a better tax system even if there was less tax work would be better overall and I could do other things and there would be more jobs in general. I try to look at the bigger picture as I am sure you could see from my postings.

I guess I am getting off topic here but I guess it is somewhat related to jobs and me being out of work.

Analytical Adam said...

In terms of my job search. I am using Craigs list, Career Builder, and also going through CPA's listed on the NY and NJ CPA societies and sending out my resumes to CPA firms from these listings. Especially now with tax season coming up.

I will share a little more in a new posting hopefully soon.

I thing I need to get to sleep. It is 2:23AM.

Anonymous said...

Oh wow, I can't believe you write so much. You are very articulate. Didn't mean to keep you up.

Analytical Adam said...

Thank you! That is very kind and sweet of you to say and thanks for your concern. You are helping in keeping me going during this tough time I am going through at the moment.

I do have an ergonomic keyboard and 10 finger type which helps.

Yesterday I send out about 19 resume's on Cragslist and had one response so far. I guess many people respond to these ad's.

I didn't get too much done today although tomorrow is another day and I am going to try go through some of the CPA's in my area and NYC.

Anyway have a good night.

Anonymous said...

Well, if it makes you happy, maybe I'll just have to post more. Then again, all the off-topicness could be seriously disrupting the organization you crave. Anyways....good shabbos!!!

Analytical Adam said...

Anony wrote:>Then again, all the off-topicness could be seriously disrupting the organization you crave.

The only issue I have is sometimes a blog can be hard to read if it gets off topic although I don't know if people read the comments anyway unless it pertains to them.

They read the main post. I don't need organization just for the sake of it. I know there is a negative stereotype about men that they have no flexibility but that is not a healthy way to be.

Analytical Adam said...

Anony wrote:>Well, if it makes you happy, maybe I'll just have to post more.

It is just nice that a woman thinks well of me to send me some possible jobs and respects my intelligence. Despite the stereotypes out there healthy men do get lonely and want to feel that life is more then JUST about oneself. When someone cares about them there existence is more then just about caring for oneself and that energizes most healthy people.

Analytical Adam said...

Have a good Shabbos as well.

Anonymous said...

Aaawww....Really though, it's not a gendered thing. People around here take this separation stuff to incredible extremes. The rest of the world isn't so nutty.

It's nothing to pass along stuff I receive. I have female friends looking for work and I look out for them too. If you see anything suitable for a Stern graduate that doesn't want to teach (shy person) or be some rabbi's secretary, post it.

Analytical Adam said...

I sent a video of this video to my mothers email address a few weeks ago but she didn’t watch it. My parents rarely are interested in things I share with them this going on for a long time. Oh well, what are you going to do. I am an adult now and anyway I need someone who would let me share with them and give me their feedback as well to mix in with my own thoughts.

It is a very true statement that it is easy to give to someone else because you are in control. It is harder to let someone give to you because you have less control but true love and respect of another person is not there if you don’t trust them to give to you and you can only give to them which if that is the case it is more out of guilt then love and respect as deep down you “don’t trust them” to give to you when you are not in control. To love another you requires both giving and allowing other to give to you.

Analytical Adam said...

Well I did want to say I myself am somewhat of an introvert but having said that I would consider a teaching job.

I think has to do with our nervous system or some other aspect of their body makeup that is beyond their control. Someone who's brain is very reactive to stimuli will be slower in new situations then someone who is less reactive to much stimuli.

But someone who is more of an introvert certainly has a lot to share with others from the activities he or she prefers.

Anonymous said...

Totally different side of you talking of true love and respect, giving and receiving. So what sources do you have?? This week's parsha I think would be a good one with your idea here.

Well it's normal to want to interact with others. People weren't exactly put on Earth to go sit on a bunch of isolated icebergs floating around the ocean. Sort of a big chunk of your blog discusses interactions with other, although usually it is in a male-female context or work related. Being alone doesn't get easier as one gets older either.

My thought on introversion is that the way it projects is personality, not that there's anything wrong with either personality. There is a book called The Introvert Advantage. One can change somewhat, but a lot of one's personality is ingrained. Sometimes things are situational too. Was actually having a detailed discussion about this last week. There are actually outgoing introverts. Have you taken Myers-Brigg personality typing? I am thinking you are probably an ISTJ based on your writings.

Analytical Adam said...

You do know the story of Moses. Moses was "not a man of words as I am heavy of mouth and heavy of speech(Exodus 4:10) and he pleaded with God that he didn't want to lead. (I mean how are they gong to listen to me.) And God got angry at him. And God told him that ok Aaron will speak for you but you will lead Aaron on what to say. See Exodus Chapter 4. You think Moses wanted to lead the Jewish people. It wasn't an easy job.

Anonymous wrote:>Well it's normal to want to interact with others. People weren't exactly put on Earth to go sit on a bunch of isolated icebergs floating around the ocean.

And God obviously put us in a world with others. God could have put us each in a separate world where each of us prayed to God and worked on ourselves but obviously God didn't do that.

Analytical Adam said...

Anonymous wrote:>There is a book called The Introvert Advantage.

Well that book clearly thinks one is better then the other and I think that is a problem. Clearly it thinks introversion is better.

I have real problems with the Myer-Briggs Indicator. I read they book by Miriam Adahan when I was in Israel for a year.

And in her view some types are more caring then others (she seems to think NF is the best) and some of the things have nothing to do with personality but more with attitude.

In fact it is funny you mention my type. When it did this 20 years ago you would be surprised that my type was INFJ which some of my letters have changed as my temperament hasn't changed but my attitudes and my beliefs have changed a great deal.

Both the N and the F have certain aspects to them that have nothing to do with inborn personality. I am more realistic now and more of a S because I no longer am supported by my parents and I have matured and we weren't put on this earth for some abstract game that helps no one. I use to be unable to take criticism because growing up I didn't see parents that could handle criticism by others. At this point I look at the bigger picture and I understand why sometimes someone would be upset at me and not take it personally.
The F personality seems to really limit a person. And if you want to go to the bible I don't think anyone was an F. But that was because they could see beyond themselves even though they were very sensitive. You can BE SENSITIVE AND NOT TAKE CRITICISM personally. Look at the story of Mordechai and Esther. Mordechai told Esther she had to risk her life and if not she would perish and he was pretty harsh about it. Esther didn't crack up. Yet I think she was a very sensitive person that cared for her own people.

Bankers Agent said...

Not to be rude but your analysis of Bankers is ridiculous.

I graduated from school last May and joined Bankers in early October and i've seen nothing that isn't in the clients best interest. Until you have the chance to sit down with an elderly couple and they talk to you about their needs then it's not fair for you to make any assumptions about the practices of the company. Maybe it's possible that the office you were interviewing with portrayed these examples.

Secondly, your comments about Medicare not being something worth selling is just as ridiculous. I think you should read up on how Medicare works, how many holes there are in the system, and how many seniors are left in the dark about what's going on. We educate the elderly what's going on with their healthcare program, do you think that's something the government would do?

We don't advertise on tv, radio, or internet. We've been around for 130 years, it's not by coincidence.

I got a degree in Healthcare Management and Policy and never thought I would sell insurance. It's very hard work, but very rewarding. Don't assume insurance agents are all the same.

Analytical Adam said...

Medicare is a government program that you pay taxes into your whole life. So how could you make money selling medicare since you already paid for it.

If you want to make your claims do it against someone who isn't an accountant.

If medicare isn't enough they should get private insurance but why would they pay for something they have paid for their whole life.

SouthernBelle said...

I was taking a break here, but this topic of taking advantage of elderly (as well as young widows or someone that has really come into money through inheritance or accident-both of which leave people emotionally vunerable) makes me furious, and it takes a lot to set me off. I suspect this is a large part of why Mr. Adam get mad at me for sticking up for the less fortunate, but it happens so often that people need to watch out for these creepy people.
And no I don't that just because someone is widowed they have the right to take advantage of others, family or not, although it appears it assumed I take this position. I know a lot about this because I grew up near a retirement community and it sickens me how insurance agents and so called financial planners supposedly "help" seniors by using shady sales tactics to push their garbage products.

To be fair, I'm sure there some honest agents and there are some good products. Like long term care insurance ineed does cover more than what medicare would. In my opinion is worth it for seniors living alone. BUT if these products were so "good" why would agents--the people that make commissions for the sales, need to "educate" consumers. Why wouldn't someone's lawyer. realtor, accountant, etc.--someone that is not getting a cut--also be able to educate their client if one of those "really good" products were needed. Woudn't this professional also be capable if one felt the consumer wasn't able to understand the details of these products? While the government might not tout their holes in coverage, certainly someone's unbiased advisor can. And there are plenty of articles in senior magazines and TV that talk about different types of financial services.

Given the turnover rate for agents is 90%, that is little better than McDonald's and indicates it is a tough sales environment. Why wouldn't insurance companies pay their agents a salary or hourly and not comission if the products were so good? "Good" products wouldn't be so tough to sell. How come agents buy "leads" lists of people that have become widows or won judgements (death announcements and course decisions are public record)? Why are agents preying on people that are emotionally fragile? Certainly a "good" finanical product sale can wait a little while when the person is in a more sound mental state. After all, isn't supposedly an agent selling their relationship to the client, not trying to make a quick buck?? Amazing how the top sales products just happen to be the ones that make the most comission to the agent. I'm sure that really "mets" the clients needs.

SouthernBelle said...

I hope Mr. Agent comes back, I have a question!!!! Or maybe Mr. Adam can explain to me since he knows lots abou this stuff. I think it is awful that a top rate life insurance companies can sit on a valid claim taking MONTHS to process (this is for an uncomplicated death in a hospital, nothing suspicious). I'm not sure if Mr. Adam knew this, but this is typical. Since I'm not anon, I'll name names too...Met Life, Prudential, New York Life, and Bankers all take a minimum of 4-6 months under ideal circumstances and no one went on vacation, usually longer to pay a life insurance claim. An agent won't tell you that when signing you up. Given that an untimely death of the breadwinner will throw many a family into financial distress what takes an insurance company that long? Why can't the whole process take a couple weeks at most? Why wouldn't in the interest good customer service and just doing the right thing, pay out quickly if there are no issues?

The loss of income is the whole reason why people get insurance. Especially on top of the cost of even an inexpensive funeral costs almost as much as a wedding--wiping out a good chunk of a family's savings. It doesn't take a coroner long to issue a death certificate so a funeral can take place, so exactly why would it take MONTHS for a company to process a valid claim that is not complicated??? A family shouldn't have to go complain to the state insurance commissioner for a top rated company. It's like insurance companies aren't too familiar with paying out claims, only collecting premiums. I know, I know, agents don't deal with that side of the business, only in the sales part. But any good salesperson should know the innerworkings of the whole business. It's really pathetic!

Analytical Adam said...

Southern Belle wrote >I was taking a break here, but this topic of taking advantage of elderly (as well as young widows or someone that has really come into money through inheritance or accident-both of which leave people emotionally vunerable) makes me furious, and it takes a lot to set me off. I suspect this is a large part of why Mr. Adam get mad at me for sticking up for the less fortunate

My response: I like your new screen name as the rest.

So you are saying I don't care for the less fortunate which people can see for themselves that you're first reaction to this article was more about me not making anything then concern for the less fortuante. People could see for themselves since the annonymous here is Southern Belle.

I wrote this article for crying out loud. You have the nerve to say I don't care. then why did I waste my time posting this. Give credit where credit is due and stop trying to take the credit of others. That shows you don't respect thought or intellectual rights. The ladies against feminism sight seems to care have a link to help orphans and widows.

I know. You want to use widows to push your agenda of feminism even though then orphans should get jobs over adult men too because maybe they will become an orphan according to your logic.

The issue isn't even money. In fact the pasuk says You should cause a widow or an orphan anguish.
(Exodus 22:21)
A widow or an orphan can be more easily taken advandage of which is exactly what Bankers is doing. A widow because she spends more time being a wife and mother so she knows less about some other area's and to take advandage is evil. A child obviously has little life experience. The punishment by the way is that YOU'RE WIFE AND CHILDREN WILL BECOME ORPHANS.(Exodus 22:23) So any man (or any woman) that takes advandage of a widow because she is an easy target that may they or their wife will end up a widow.

Analytical Adam said...

Part 2: It should also be pointed out though that it says in Exodus 23:3 that DO NOT GLORIFY a destitute person in his grievance.

Which means you are not suppose to favor a person because they are poor. You shouldn't take advantage of them but this does not mean that they should get special favors.

Anyway it is funny the torah is concerned about women who are widows and orphans (and I think this is to children without a father) because they don't have a husband and they can be more taken advandage of by those who are unscrupulous and especially that a woman did what she was suppose to do. But today women openly want to be like the widow and don't even want a husband. I guess they think they won't be taken advandage of if they try being a man. They should have more faith in God that God promises that when you cause anguish to a widow as bankers did here that man's wife may become a widow. Women ALSO SHOULD NOT MARRY MEN that take advandage of the vulnerable because their husband may die young as a punishment for taking advandage of widows and orphans.

SouthernBelle said...

Oh no, no, I didn't mean that you aren't sensitive to people in disadvantage circumstances. You certainly are very caring person in many ways I think. Like you posted various other articles like this. Even though you roar like a lion online, I'm sure you are very very nice guy. You might even have a bit of a southern heart...hehehe

What I mean to say is I think you get tired of me talking about stuff like that, and it's annoying to you and that 'you don't care for THAT', not that you don't care about people or the subject...that's all. :)

I don't think people should get special favors, although I do think we should watch out for people. I mean if I knew your were about to get scammed, I would want to warn you (and you could make up your own mind on what to do). It doesn't matter what gender, race, etc. you are. Likewise, I would want people to do the same for me.

Analytical Adam said...

Also I just didn't to say here since Southern Belle seem to ask on other life insurances that they also have problems and I have to say I really don't know as this is something being an unmarried man I have looked into at this point as I have other worries.

I will say it dose seem Bankers and Conseco that owns bankers has A VERY HIGH COMPLAIN rate which I can understand and a few others do as well (although I don't think as high but not looking this up at the moment) but a number of life insurance companies have significantly lower complain rates. It is a tough industry today as people aren't buying life insurance but that in no way excuses this and conseco also is a serious financial situation and they don't have a good reputation. That is all I know off the top of my head about the field in general.

Analytical Adam said...

My last comments showed up after you commented Southern Belle (so it was addressing your earlier comment) even though the order here is different since you commented while I made this other comment. I also mixed up some words on the first few sentences. Sorry. I hope most of it makes sense.

Analytical Adam said...

Well thank you Southern Belle. I do try to care although like anyone else i have to take care of myself too but try not to be only for oneself.

Southern Belle wrote:>What I mean to say is I think you get tired of me talking about stuff like that, and it's annoying to you and that 'you don't care for THAT', not that you don't care about people or the subject...that's all. :)

OK. Well actually that really wasn't what I was upset about.

In fact I don't mind hearing about it and I would agree that it is wrong for life insurances to take advantage or slow to pay out as that is why people buy life insurance in case that God forbid in middle age the guy dies that they have funds as it is to pay out in the small percent cases that this happens (it happens less today then in the past). To take advantage is very wrong and evil or to try to get this money and use it in a way that is not in the best interest of the widow or her children.

The only case I disagree is the case of Ruth. I honestly don't think in her case it hurt her in that she wasn't married very long and she was young and she had no children yet. Her issue was that people consider her a Moabite and we are not suppose to mistreat a stranger although this was one exception although with a woman she can decide to be part of another nation.

Analytical Adam said...

Southern Belle wrote:>Even though you roar like a lion online, I'm sure you are very very nice guy. You might even have a bit of a southern heart...hehehe

OK. Well you do know my hebrew name is Aryeh so that is why I have that character. And Judah also was called a lion.

Also, you have the type that is so nice and gentle but stabs you in the back.

I try to share my feelings both positive and negative so you know where you stand with me.

SouthernBelle said...

Oh I don't stab people in the back. Why would you say that??? I'll ignore them, but that isn't stabbing them...

As the old saying......what comes around goes around. People that aren't nice usually (sooner or later, usually much later) reap what they sow.

Analytical Adam said...

SouthernBelle:>Oh I don't stab people in the back. Why would you say that???

What I am saying is that you were saying that I roar like a lion but that I am likely a nice guy so it sounded like you were saying they are mutually exclusive that because I roar like a lion therefore I can't be a nice guy and I was commenting that some people that seem very nice and easy going stab you in the back as someone that is too nice you really have to wonder.

Analytical Adam said...

SouthernBelle wrote:>I'll ignore them,

You are not ignoring me so that is a good sign. To me the worst thing is when people ignore you and just don't care one way or another. :)

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't say mutually exclusive. More like you have tough NY'er guy with exterior with all that entails, but your really all heart underneath. And y'all NY'ers are pretty tough, you can't get around this one. But maybe you just need a home cooked meal and you'll purr instead...hehehe

Analytical Adam said...

Well I would think Southern men are tough as well. I would hope so and maybe that is one of their faults. I don't mean tough in terms of physical. More tough mentally although in some cases they go together for sure.

I guess I could be a sucker for a good meal although I still have to love God and my love of a woman has to still answer to that higher authority. I can't screw up like the first Adam did when he loved Eve more then God and went along when she offered him the forbidden fruit. And gave him that really tasty apple that he wasn't suppose to eat.

SouthernBelle said...

Well there are a lot of regional differences. NY area as seen by outsiders is much faster pace, less personal and friendly, and a lot more hardened. That’s the sort of toughness I was referring to. Just an example, pretty much everyone out of town coming to ny has to train their selves not to greet everyone and limit eye contact and other non verbal cues in passing. In most places it’s considered disrespectful and insulting just to walk on by and ignore people like they don’t exist. Even strangers will think maybe you’re not well and will ask if you need help. But hey, it’s proper and modest here to be in one’s little bubble out in public. And this is coming from a major introvert and I still had to tone it down a lot—oh I have stories on that! Y’all are also a lot more boring in so many people wearing black or dark all the time…so gloomy looking really. Surely you’ve hear this standard of normal in NY is only normal in NY and wherever NY’ers congregate. Or maybe you’re going to get all mad now that I picked on tough NY’ers :)

I don’t think the forbidden fruit is in the same category as a good meal. Maybe it wasn’t even a tasty apple either, if it was an apple. I’ve heard it could have been something else. Anyways, I don’t think the vast majority of men are that easily snookered with some meat and potatoes.